This is so clearly explained. Thank you. How frustrating for you to be so far into the process. I hit a similar impasse with UK citizenship, even though my father never renounced, but my mother is American (obviously it’s complicated) Thankfully the Italians gave us an ER visa, I sure hope they renew it next year.
Thanks, Gillian. Sorry to hear about your UK citizenship. It’s almost always complicated, unfortunately. You don’t need to worry about your visa—it doesn’t get renewed. (If it did, you’d have to do it in the U.S., and wouldn’t that be a pain!) The permesso di soggiorno takes its place; that’s what gets renewed each year (or two years, if you’re lucky). As long as you maintain the initial requirements (income, health care, etc.), there’s no problem with renewing it. And after 5 years of residency you can apply for the long-stay permit (as long as you’re a taxpayer and acquire a language certification, among other requirements).
Yes, I misspoke.As you know Questura appointments are being granted about a year from the request now. At least that will make our 5 years go quickly 😂 My next odious task is to meet with the commercialista.
Oh wow, I had no idea your case was still in court. And you being there all these years doesn’t help? Dang!!
The consulates are definitely overloaded. I have found it impossible to get an appointment at mine for a visa that would allow me to apply for my permesso. I wish I had done this back when Dallas was my consulate but since my move last year, I must know apply through SF and, while I check almost every day, they have ZERO appointments available. 🙁
Yes, unfortunately people sometimes wait years for an appointment, at least for JS. Maybe the queue for visas is shorter.
And no, me being resident in Italy is meaningless in this kind of case. As a resident I can naturalize here, and could have done so several years ago since my grandparents were born here. But my children wouldn't get citizenship that way.
All we can do is speculate: cause you're incurably optimistic, believe me!!!
Analyzing a social action implies that the action is based on accurate social analysis. I'm not really sure that's the case that drive the political direction right now.
I'm serious worried for the Italian culture too, and for so many other subjects.
"Like our judge, whom our attorney had been thrilled to see assigned to us because of her favorable track record.". Cheryl...see anything wrong with this ? Grammar-wise?
So no one who immigrated to the United States can get their dual citizenship. That should help Italy’s efforts to increase their population, ie 1 Euro houses and 7% flat tax rate for southern Italy. So what’s happening is people who love Italy enough to go through the terrible citizenship process and have a legitimate claim through their ancestors, are being denied and yet people are flocking to Italy from other countries and being admitted. It’s like the old saying, “We have met the enemy and it’s us.”
Yes, some are eliminated; that's always been true. And this new limitation is disappointing, to say the least, especially for those who have no other path. However, let me clarify that Italian immigrants did not have to renounce their Italian citizenship, nor did they do so when they naturalized. The oath of allegiance makes it sound like they renounced, but that actually was a separate thing where they went to court and formally renounced their ties to Italy. Very few immigrants, naturalized or not, did that. It's part of the verification process during citizenship recognition (they check everywhere the ancestor lived), but it's rarely a problem. I've yet to hear of anyone who's been rejected for that reason.
Who's left? The many thousands of people whose ancestors never naturalized or naturalized when their children had reached the age of majority, or whose female ancestor involuntarily naturalized with her husband. Every day I hear about people celebrating their successes. If you want to learn more, I encourage you to read the detailed guides at https://dualusitalian.com/welcome/units/
Now I’m really confused, some may say that’s my normal state of mind, but …my understanding is the Italians were forced to renounce their Italian citizenship to become an American citizen. My understanding is my wife’s grandfather was forced to renounce his Italian citizenship before he became an American citizen, that’s why she had to use her father’s line because he was born before her grandfather became an American citizen. Isn’t that the door that has been closed?
Nope. If your wife's father was born before his father became a citizen, that's good. (Except now it depends on the age of the child.) Dates are critical. The ability to inherit citizenship depends on when your ancestor naturalized. If a man naturalized before his child was born, that's it; the line was cut. If he never naturalized, the line remains uncut and the child inherits Italian citizenship. If a man naturalized after the child's birth, previously that was fine (now the child has to have reached the age of maturity, which was 21 prior to 1975). So now, with this change in the law, if you were 19, for example, when your parent naturalized, you're out of luck. And I honestly don't know much about renouncing because, like I said, it rarely happened.
I actually wasn't aware of this change-- I've been focused on my own visa situation which (as a full-blooded Scandi born in America) was an Investor application, not a citizenship claim through ancestry. But this is going to complicate life for so many friends of mine who are just starting to explore the possibility of obtaining citizenship. I too can understand why Italy is doing it, particularly based on the numbers you cited. But when you put specific faces on the statistics, it's a shame for people who have been dreaming of this for years. Thanks for such an informative post.
Thank you for this outstanding coverage of the change!
Glad it was helpful!
This is so clearly explained. Thank you. How frustrating for you to be so far into the process. I hit a similar impasse with UK citizenship, even though my father never renounced, but my mother is American (obviously it’s complicated) Thankfully the Italians gave us an ER visa, I sure hope they renew it next year.
Thanks, Gillian. Sorry to hear about your UK citizenship. It’s almost always complicated, unfortunately. You don’t need to worry about your visa—it doesn’t get renewed. (If it did, you’d have to do it in the U.S., and wouldn’t that be a pain!) The permesso di soggiorno takes its place; that’s what gets renewed each year (or two years, if you’re lucky). As long as you maintain the initial requirements (income, health care, etc.), there’s no problem with renewing it. And after 5 years of residency you can apply for the long-stay permit (as long as you’re a taxpayer and acquire a language certification, among other requirements).
Yes, I misspoke.As you know Questura appointments are being granted about a year from the request now. At least that will make our 5 years go quickly 😂 My next odious task is to meet with the commercialista.
Thanks for the helpful info!
Oh wow, I had no idea your case was still in court. And you being there all these years doesn’t help? Dang!!
The consulates are definitely overloaded. I have found it impossible to get an appointment at mine for a visa that would allow me to apply for my permesso. I wish I had done this back when Dallas was my consulate but since my move last year, I must know apply through SF and, while I check almost every day, they have ZERO appointments available. 🙁
Yes, unfortunately people sometimes wait years for an appointment, at least for JS. Maybe the queue for visas is shorter.
And no, me being resident in Italy is meaningless in this kind of case. As a resident I can naturalize here, and could have done so several years ago since my grandparents were born here. But my children wouldn't get citizenship that way.
Wow. That is indeed frustrating!! Especially when you’ve done so much work tracing your lineage, finding family…, I’m sorry to hear this.
All we can do is speculate: cause you're incurably optimistic, believe me!!!
Analyzing a social action implies that the action is based on accurate social analysis. I'm not really sure that's the case that drive the political direction right now.
I'm serious worried for the Italian culture too, and for so many other subjects.
"Like our judge, whom our attorney had been thrilled to see assigned to us because of her favorable track record.". Cheryl...see anything wrong with this ? Grammar-wise?
So no one who immigrated to the United States can get their dual citizenship. That should help Italy’s efforts to increase their population, ie 1 Euro houses and 7% flat tax rate for southern Italy. So what’s happening is people who love Italy enough to go through the terrible citizenship process and have a legitimate claim through their ancestors, are being denied and yet people are flocking to Italy from other countries and being admitted. It’s like the old saying, “We have met the enemy and it’s us.”
I seriously fear for Italy’s culture.
Not true at all, plenty are still eligible. And as I said, it’s not like they’re moving to Italy in big numbers.
But some are eliminated and it makes it even more difficult.
If you immigrate to the United States, you had to denounce your Italian citizenship. So it’s difficult for me to imagine who’s left?
Yes, some are eliminated; that's always been true. And this new limitation is disappointing, to say the least, especially for those who have no other path. However, let me clarify that Italian immigrants did not have to renounce their Italian citizenship, nor did they do so when they naturalized. The oath of allegiance makes it sound like they renounced, but that actually was a separate thing where they went to court and formally renounced their ties to Italy. Very few immigrants, naturalized or not, did that. It's part of the verification process during citizenship recognition (they check everywhere the ancestor lived), but it's rarely a problem. I've yet to hear of anyone who's been rejected for that reason.
Who's left? The many thousands of people whose ancestors never naturalized or naturalized when their children had reached the age of majority, or whose female ancestor involuntarily naturalized with her husband. Every day I hear about people celebrating their successes. If you want to learn more, I encourage you to read the detailed guides at https://dualusitalian.com/welcome/units/
Now I’m really confused, some may say that’s my normal state of mind, but …my understanding is the Italians were forced to renounce their Italian citizenship to become an American citizen. My understanding is my wife’s grandfather was forced to renounce his Italian citizenship before he became an American citizen, that’s why she had to use her father’s line because he was born before her grandfather became an American citizen. Isn’t that the door that has been closed?
Nope. If your wife's father was born before his father became a citizen, that's good. (Except now it depends on the age of the child.) Dates are critical. The ability to inherit citizenship depends on when your ancestor naturalized. If a man naturalized before his child was born, that's it; the line was cut. If he never naturalized, the line remains uncut and the child inherits Italian citizenship. If a man naturalized after the child's birth, previously that was fine (now the child has to have reached the age of maturity, which was 21 prior to 1975). So now, with this change in the law, if you were 19, for example, when your parent naturalized, you're out of luck. And I honestly don't know much about renouncing because, like I said, it rarely happened.
So your saying naturalizing and renouncing your citizenship has the same effect on your ability to get citizenship
What’s not true
I actually wasn't aware of this change-- I've been focused on my own visa situation which (as a full-blooded Scandi born in America) was an Investor application, not a citizenship claim through ancestry. But this is going to complicate life for so many friends of mine who are just starting to explore the possibility of obtaining citizenship. I too can understand why Italy is doing it, particularly based on the numbers you cited. But when you put specific faces on the statistics, it's a shame for people who have been dreaming of this for years. Thanks for such an informative post.