Sono in Italia, e legale usare l’inglese? I’ll take the risk! I think the Italians are justly riled up about any revisionist take on the origin of their cuisine, but in Italian fashion are going to completely ignore any attempts by the government to purify their speech. I understand the view that this is a way to maintain the culture, but I recall the French tried the same thing years ago, to regulate the use of French only. That they failed miserably is evident in the ubiquitous English now evident everywhere in Paris. And that was a left leaning government so both sides play this game. I think of far greater concern is the movement in the US to purify speech by censoring words deemed by some to be offensive or harmful, and the increasing acquiescence of this by the media and other institutions. At least the Italians can say any word they want—in Italian.
Oh Stewart, English in Italy--how brave! 😂 Totally agree with you on all counts. And the food debates will continue; just this morning I read an article that says not only does carbonara have nothing to do with American GIs as Grandi claims, but in fact it originated in Umbria, not Rome. Pass the wine!
The strength of the English language is its acceptance of every word from everywhere. Even the French have loosened their reins a bit. I think this purity debate in language goes on in every language. My mother tongue, Tamil, is one the world’s oldest languages and it has come up with words to represent everything. Computer, Email, the works!!!! But in contemporary Tamil (both in speech and in the written word) I believe people use only the English terms and that usage alone will determine the staying power, 😆. Thank you, what a fantastic post. I love your writings. And I say you write the history book on Italian foods...
How interesting! Yes, popular usage will ultimately win out. Every time English adopts a practice I don’t like, I tell myself it’s a natural evolutionary process. One thing I find really interesting to watch, in English, is how two words become hyphenated and then end up as one.
Hate to tell you but I’m the world’s laziest cook, so I’ll leave those cookbooks to someone else! Thanks for the comment, Kalpana!
elephant in living rm: overarching move toward facism. trump,grandi, maloni and now…finland??? the pervasive and troublesome tone has even spilled into food and language. does not bode well for not only america but the globe. yes, you are right re: fine food historic authenticity-- does it even matter? more than its quality? and who cares if caesar salad was ‘invented’ in tijuana, mx. or if pasta was invented in…china.
Pizza went to Italy from Greece, via the Roman Empire. Spaghetti came from China, via Marco Polo. That's what empires do- they steal. I'm British- we have a good track record of that! Culinary and linguistic waters have been muddied for hundreds of years already. It's unlikely to stop now!
They certainly have been! And fusion cuisine has been big for years, so you're right; those waters will keep on getting muddied. Thanks for stopping by!
Track record! Ha! All this stealing and all this appropriation, isn't it crazy how in the onward march of civilization every theft/seizure/conquest has had its positive effects too? If India had not been invaded by the Moghuls we may not have had some of the art/craftsmanship that's now part of the Indian aesthetic. All this borrowing and usurping and stealing and using (and misusing) also ends up coloring our language(s) in wonderful ways. Fun post by Cheryl and some fun comments as well.
Italians need to stop being such purists (and prudes) about their cuisine. Remember that news story about the pizza place run by an immigrant and how people 𝑙𝑜𝑣𝑒𝑑 his new flavor combinations? QED.
Sono in Italia, e legale usare l’inglese? I’ll take the risk! I think the Italians are justly riled up about any revisionist take on the origin of their cuisine, but in Italian fashion are going to completely ignore any attempts by the government to purify their speech. I understand the view that this is a way to maintain the culture, but I recall the French tried the same thing years ago, to regulate the use of French only. That they failed miserably is evident in the ubiquitous English now evident everywhere in Paris. And that was a left leaning government so both sides play this game. I think of far greater concern is the movement in the US to purify speech by censoring words deemed by some to be offensive or harmful, and the increasing acquiescence of this by the media and other institutions. At least the Italians can say any word they want—in Italian.
Oh Stewart, English in Italy--how brave! 😂 Totally agree with you on all counts. And the food debates will continue; just this morning I read an article that says not only does carbonara have nothing to do with American GIs as Grandi claims, but in fact it originated in Umbria, not Rome. Pass the wine!
The strength of the English language is its acceptance of every word from everywhere. Even the French have loosened their reins a bit. I think this purity debate in language goes on in every language. My mother tongue, Tamil, is one the world’s oldest languages and it has come up with words to represent everything. Computer, Email, the works!!!! But in contemporary Tamil (both in speech and in the written word) I believe people use only the English terms and that usage alone will determine the staying power, 😆. Thank you, what a fantastic post. I love your writings. And I say you write the history book on Italian foods...
How interesting! Yes, popular usage will ultimately win out. Every time English adopts a practice I don’t like, I tell myself it’s a natural evolutionary process. One thing I find really interesting to watch, in English, is how two words become hyphenated and then end up as one.
Hate to tell you but I’m the world’s laziest cook, so I’ll leave those cookbooks to someone else! Thanks for the comment, Kalpana!
Whoops, you said history book on food. Maybe . . .
Maybe their obsessive attention to foreigner words is a way to hide that they're not exactly qualified to handle crucial matters.
Not exactly qualified about several subject. Maybe.😉
Touché!
We think you are awesome
And you two are sweethearts for saying so!
Not cranky
elephant in living rm: overarching move toward facism. trump,grandi, maloni and now…finland??? the pervasive and troublesome tone has even spilled into food and language. does not bode well for not only america but the globe. yes, you are right re: fine food historic authenticity-- does it even matter? more than its quality? and who cares if caesar salad was ‘invented’ in tijuana, mx. or if pasta was invented in…china.
Pizza went to Italy from Greece, via the Roman Empire. Spaghetti came from China, via Marco Polo. That's what empires do- they steal. I'm British- we have a good track record of that! Culinary and linguistic waters have been muddied for hundreds of years already. It's unlikely to stop now!
They certainly have been! And fusion cuisine has been big for years, so you're right; those waters will keep on getting muddied. Thanks for stopping by!
Track record! Ha! All this stealing and all this appropriation, isn't it crazy how in the onward march of civilization every theft/seizure/conquest has had its positive effects too? If India had not been invaded by the Moghuls we may not have had some of the art/craftsmanship that's now part of the Indian aesthetic. All this borrowing and usurping and stealing and using (and misusing) also ends up coloring our language(s) in wonderful ways. Fun post by Cheryl and some fun comments as well.
Italians need to stop being such purists (and prudes) about their cuisine. Remember that news story about the pizza place run by an immigrant and how people 𝑙𝑜𝑣𝑒𝑑 his new flavor combinations? QED.